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Report 912
Report #912 Skillset: Paradigmatics Skill: Badluck Org: Illuminati Status: Completed Nov 2012 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: After extensively fighting as an Illuminati for a good while, it has become apparent that the class is imbalanced, broadly speaking, in 2 main ways: 1) While its individual effects are arguably more or less fine, when put together, it becomes far too hindering especially regarding badluck's balance loss - it hinders curing, running, AND fighting while the other effects only hinders 1 or 2 facets. The class isn't really meant to synergize as well with balance loss, that's Nihilist territory (The change to hekoskeri reflects this as well). 2) The main kill method for the class, Illuminate, is nearly impossible to pull off against middle to top tier opponents. This report hopes to address both issues by: 1. Removing badluck's balance-stealing effect, which overly hinders the victim (badluck functions off any balance-taking action and focus mind). 2. Replacing said effect with a buildup mechanic to aid the Illuminati in getting an Illuminate without rendering the first suggestion moot. Ideally, the net result will be that the class gets a bit toned down in its balance-taking capabilities while at the same time improving its chances to land an illuminate on the victim a bit more. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Replace badluck's current effect with one that increases the amount of temporary insanity given by Transmology/Paradigmatics attacks (list - chaosaura, madfly, homunculus bite, initial hit of badluck, greywhispers, visionflux, revelations), scaling up according to the amount of mental afflictions currently plaguing the victim. The suggested rate is 1 extra hit of insanity per 2 mental afflictions. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, replace Paradigmatics Snafu's current effect to add a 50% chance for an additional hit of insanity to all insanity-giving attacks (same list as in solution 1) that hit enemies in the room. Player Comments: ---on 10/11 @ 00:58 writes: Fourth rewrite. The prime difference between this version and the last version is that this version does not fudge with cure balances and does not give any form of cure denial. I'm feeling good about this one. Constructive comments would be great ---on 10/11 @ 03:24 writes: APPROVE. Solution 2. I like the sound of this one, will definitely help you in regards to pulling off an illuminate. ---on 10/11 @ 13:10 writes: Approve solution 1. ---on 10/11 @ 16:55 writes: How many hits of insanity do you need for an illuminate, in revelations? ---on 10/11 @ 22:14 writes: 7 straight revelations ---on 10/12 @ 00:06 writes: The only thing that concerns me here is scaling. If both solutions are implemented, a target with two mental affs (fairly reasonably) will be hit with 2 insanity levels, with a 50% chance to take three from a revelations attack. You're already (very slightly) outpacing curing, without including any of the passives. The numbers can be adjusted later, though. ---on 10/12 @ 05:16 writes: I'm fine with Snafu not stacking with singular badluck if that's a concern. I'll leave it up to the admin ---on 10/14 @ 15:10 writes: Approve solution 1. ---on 10/14 @ 19:30 writes: I'm with Asmodea, if the effect of bad luck is being changed, it should also be changed for Snafu too. Solution #2 supported. ---on 10/25 @ 14:55 writes: I'm really worried, quite frankly, about anything that proposes to increase the current output of temporaryinsanity. Right now, it has multiple potent sources and despite what's claimed here, can definitely be built to some degree by all tertiaries, regardless of if they can really hit massive levels or not. Both temporaryinsanity and timewarp are the first things cured on focus mind (as they should be) which has an effect similar to impatience in that one cannot utilize their focus minds in order to cure mental afflictions. This is actually far more powerful than I think most people realize. I've brought this report to an old illuminati who was quite successful as a hexen and he stated that badluck was of no use for him in achieving an illuminate, and that replacing it with something that increases this output would actually tip him into overpowered. With greywhispers, jinx and good use of hexes, receiving the mental afflictions necessary to get the maximum boost proposed here is nearly trivial. When you compound the fact that one becomes slowly limited to utilizing only herbs to cure the rapidly building mental afflictions, it becomes very overwhelming very quickly. Also consider the high levels of command denial achievable with jinx and a high number of mental afflictions, which is actually the large reason for this combination's success. I definitely sympathize with not being able to achieve an illuminate as other tertiaries, but so long as hexen is able to get it as surely as it can, I'm not sure increasing insanity output is really a good idea at all. An astrologer Nihilist and Celestine both go primarily for meteor kills for example, and both tarot variants also go primarily for soulless. I really don't think illuminati as a class really and truly requires this to be different, and while I agree with you from a -design- standpoint that these kill methods should be achievable across all tertiaries, I'm not sure this is going to end up being balanced. I apologize for having to admit that a ---on 10/25 @ 14:56 writes: At the time of this comment, I really don't have much better ideas of how to approach the problem of badluck's hindering. ---on 10/28 @ 18:41 writes: I'd like to hear who this old illuminati who was successful as a hexen was. If he really was old, then it's not applicable given the current situation since many things have changed - both regarding illuminati offense and other related aspects at large. Furthermore, curing, as always, has substantially improved compared to the past. Again, if you want to illuminate, you either have to deny curing temporary insanity (you did not approve of this), you increase the curing balance (you also did not approve of this), or you increase the output of temporary insanity (you now also did not approve of this) - that's frankly ridiculous. I will just state that I do not agree with your crazy POV that a class' main instakill should be unusable between all specs, that is bad balance and not interesting. I've taken a lot of time in approaching this situation and I've written draft after draft after receiving precious feedback in order to receive approval from a wide spectrum of envoys and at the of the day, this is the most agreeable solution to most of the parties involved at this moment in time. ---on 11/7 @ 19:03 writes: Solution 1 seems to be the best approach in any case. ---on 11/8 @ 22:08 writes: I've sat down and thought hard once again on illuminati and this report, and though I'm still worried about the effects of increasing the output of temporary insanity, I think that if this allows for illuminati hindering to be far more manageable to fight through, it could at least balance allowing solution 1 ONLY. However, I want to clarify how much you suggest with "an extra hit of temporaryinsanity". Would it be one pennyroyal's worth as in most skills, or as in revelations where it will require at least a focus mind? I think if we could keep it to greywhisper-tic levels, I would tentatively approve that. Also you fail to mention a cap on effectiveness per mental affliction. Is there one? ALSO, Would it be unfair to request secondary varied lines for transparency, allowing you to have a good clue how much extra insanity you're taking? This report would complicate curing quite a fair bit, for a class that already requires that to be at top-notch, and I think you'd lose nothing offensively if this suggestion goes through as well. ---on 11/9 @ 22:41 writes: An extra hit is one pennyroyal's worth, -not- one revelations' worth. There's no cap right now because I feel that if you build up a significant amount of mental afflictions on the victim given Illuminati's unreliable affliction methods, then you deserve to die. This can be adjusted in the future though if needed. Regarding lines, while I don't mind from a personal or philosophical POV, the bitter human person in me is still touchy about how many envoys rejected the same request for transparency regarding focusing. ---on 11/21 @ 15:16 writes: Solution 1 or solution 2 if it doesn't stack with 1.